Just as the prince of lies would not accept that he's lying (unless forced to do so by divine authority), we don't need to hear Vigano say that he's a sedevacantists. By his fruits, we can tell that they're bad and that he operates in darkness.
Its very simple: we are taught in CCD to respect the Pope. Cardinal Vigrano, and other so-called traditionalists, do not.
Their disrespect shown by him (they) to the Vicar Of Christ, The Successor To St. Peter, is abominable. The nuns would have smacked us silly, even in HS, for such disrespect.
I always go back to thinking of Christ and the Church through my childhood lens, to course correct and critically think when confronted with such apostasies.
Thank you Mike, for again pointing this out. The heretical disrespect is the root of schism, and needs to be called out. Sedevacanism has no place in the Catholic Church.
No. We disagree. Sedevacanism has no place in the Church IMHO. It’s schism and disrespect, and in Vigrano’s case it is insubordination. I do not accept or abide by it at all. It is abhorrent to me as a cradle Catholic. I stand with Pope Francis, just like I have stood with every Pope since Saint John XXIII. What is this nonsense about “the chair of St Peter goes vacant every few decades”? Do you mean because of the passing of a Pope, or because some don’t like the new Pope? If it’s the latter, then that is unacceptable to me.
(Unless you're only criticizing long-term sedevacantism, in which case I agree with you, since such position would seem to ignore Christ's promise to not leave us orphans)
So I guess it's never possible that there could be a defect in a papal conclave or election? That's ignorant. Insisting that there can never be a question of this nature is the problem in and of itself. Obviously the Holy Spirit has been absent in some ways during this tragic papacy. Make sure you don't ask why, or you're a sede!
The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, is always there for Vicar Of Christ, as well as for the faithful. Pope Francis listens to the Holy Spirit. For Vigrano and the temptation of schism, the Holy Spirit listens and speaks not so much; except to resist schism and stay the course on the Teachings Of Christ.
The Holy Spirit never abandons the Church, but the Pope is not free from error. The sense of the faithful has rejected some of the flights of this pope and Cdl. Fernandez departing from the authentic magisterium of the Church. The duty of fraternal correction is established and has been manifested in the Dubia and rebuke of Cardinals and Bishops. Viagno links these errors to the fruits of Vatican II. Your reasoning would have anyone critical of an errant pope from within the church, put outside of the church. Fraternal correction is a duty in good faith imposed especially upon Bishops by their office.
Just as the prince of lies would not accept that he's lying (unless forced to do so by divine authority), we don't need to hear Vigano say that he's a sedevacantists. By his fruits, we can tell that they're bad and that he operates in darkness.
Its very simple: we are taught in CCD to respect the Pope. Cardinal Vigrano, and other so-called traditionalists, do not.
Their disrespect shown by him (they) to the Vicar Of Christ, The Successor To St. Peter, is abominable. The nuns would have smacked us silly, even in HS, for such disrespect.
I always go back to thinking of Christ and the Church through my childhood lens, to course correct and critically think when confronted with such apostasies.
Thank you Mike, for again pointing this out. The heretical disrespect is the root of schism, and needs to be called out. Sedevacanism has no place in the Catholic Church.
"Sedevacantism has no place in the Catholic Church"
But... that's not true. The chair of Peter goes vacant every few decades. Are you trying to say it doesn't?
Or are you saying that not only is the Pope infallible, but all claims about papal elections being valid are also infallible?
I think you lost me.
No. We disagree. Sedevacanism has no place in the Church IMHO. It’s schism and disrespect, and in Vigrano’s case it is insubordination. I do not accept or abide by it at all. It is abhorrent to me as a cradle Catholic. I stand with Pope Francis, just like I have stood with every Pope since Saint John XXIII. What is this nonsense about “the chair of St Peter goes vacant every few decades”? Do you mean because of the passing of a Pope, or because some don’t like the new Pope? If it’s the latter, then that is unacceptable to me.
Every time a pope dies, the whole church is by definition sedevacantist. How is that "nonsense"? And how can you say it has no place in the church?
(Unless you're only criticizing long-term sedevacantism, in which case I agree with you, since such position would seem to ignore Christ's promise to not leave us orphans)
So I guess it's never possible that there could be a defect in a papal conclave or election? That's ignorant. Insisting that there can never be a question of this nature is the problem in and of itself. Obviously the Holy Spirit has been absent in some ways during this tragic papacy. Make sure you don't ask why, or you're a sede!
The Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, is always there for Vicar Of Christ, as well as for the faithful. Pope Francis listens to the Holy Spirit. For Vigrano and the temptation of schism, the Holy Spirit listens and speaks not so much; except to resist schism and stay the course on the Teachings Of Christ.
The Holy Spirit never abandons the Church, but the Pope is not free from error. The sense of the faithful has rejected some of the flights of this pope and Cdl. Fernandez departing from the authentic magisterium of the Church. The duty of fraternal correction is established and has been manifested in the Dubia and rebuke of Cardinals and Bishops. Viagno links these errors to the fruits of Vatican II. Your reasoning would have anyone critical of an errant pope from within the church, put outside of the church. Fraternal correction is a duty in good faith imposed especially upon Bishops by their office.
I think you have given us a good clarification here.
FWIW, Wikipedia characterizes Vigano as a "schismatic bishop".
Yes, interesting. I am surprised someone hasn't changed it because the Church hasn't "declared" it.
Most photos of Vigano are in black and white, so I cannot see if his eyes are green or not.